Newsnight carried a debate this evening between a Conservative MP and Liberal Peer on Lords' reform.
One argued for a democratic chamber elected by Single Transferable Vote as promised in his party's manifesto. The other said his party's manifesto was wrong, the primacy of the Commons was vital and said that reform should be limited and evolutionary - carrying on the baby steps started by the Parliament Act in 1911.
The former, of course, was the Conservative MP and the latter undemocratic prevaricator was Lord Steel.
It is available on i-player here.
Lord Steel was MP for Roxburgh South West 1906-1910.